knivesandstuff
knivesandstuff
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Відео

Bones and Geometry
Переглядів 3372 роки тому
Just a little bit of testing on different knives of different geometries in realistic, but also not realistically necessary cutting. this is to show that thin knives can handle more than you think if appropriately supported. its also to show that there is no one perfect knife. the IMPORTANT thing is to understand all these causes and effects so that YOU can tune your knife to the best suited of...
It's all about the knife geometry. lengthy summary
Переглядів 6552 роки тому
I'm sure that some of my comments i make off the cuff might offend the sensibilities of people who live in the "knife community" but i find the moment you have any form of community, a level of elitism starts to take over where you can start believing in things kind of like a cult. been there done that myself. Please don't be offended, it's not the intent even though i know it can happen. I'm n...
thin knife VS zip tie
Переглядів 3172 роки тому
thin knife VS zip tie
knife edge geometry evangelism. you're too thick to work
Переглядів 6912 роки тому
These videos are not about the knife models or brands. They are about geometry a more accurate check of the bevels after the video showed the paring knife around 7-8dps up to 10dps microscopic bevel. the sebenza was still 17dps or so, but thinned down behind the edge
Real work comparison of 6-7dps victorinox paring knife with thicker edge knife
Переглядів 6 тис.2 роки тому
PLEASE NOTE: It is immaterial that the other knife is a CRK Sebenza, thats just the only kninfe i have currently close to factory edge thickness. so put thought out of your mind. Any factory knife of the same geometry will be equally bad. forget the steel type too.. Also consider that I have already massively reduced the edge angle from factory but its still thick. The original factory angle is...
6dps paring knife cut test, part 2
Переглядів 4322 роки тому
What I learned here is that I need to get as thin as my edge covid fat seat took over my life
victorinox paring knife 6dps, part 1
Переглядів 4402 роки тому
I challenge my friends and viewers.. Go thinner. Compensate. For the thin edge by increasing your skills treat the hammer like a hammer and the knife like a knife and be rewarded
cKc Victorious #4 HDef 1080p Preview
Переглядів 2212 роки тому
Hi Def Preview for Posterity
Ckc victorious
Переглядів 1992 роки тому
Nice
ckc XXXL Forrester
Переглядів 3322 роки тому
Good
Oh Rust! Chris Reeve Impinda maintenance.
Переглядів 3402 роки тому
A long video badly recorded, no editing. No tripod. Sorry guys.. But does have some useful. Info
Sharpening S35vn Chris Reeve Impinda with venev diamond stone
Переглядів 4092 роки тому
I did this just after doing a full tear down and sharpen. See much longer video coming
Chris Reeve Knives Small Sebenza 31 issues and resolutions
Переглядів 3,9 тис.2 роки тому
All in all a great knife. Thanks to @iAMboognish for all his good realistic commentary on these knives.
ckc Forrester 3xl Highlight
Переглядів 2062 роки тому
A Few Clips taken from lost footage. 8MM Calmax blade. Weight 28oz
Cant push, can slice. coarse edge
Переглядів 1952 роки тому
Cant push, can slice. coarse edge
Opinel 112 Reprofile.
Переглядів 3012 роки тому
Opinel 112 Reprofile.
sudden rain storm in Manila
Переглядів 1622 роки тому
sudden rain storm in Manila
Restoring a mangled edge on victorinox paring knife
Переглядів 4673 роки тому
Restoring a mangled edge on victorinox paring knife
The mighty victorinox paring knife
Переглядів 7953 роки тому
The mighty victorinox paring knife
Japanese Ceramic. Noble Home & Chef Sharpening Rods
Переглядів 1,9 тис.3 роки тому
Japanese Ceramic. Noble Home & Chef Sharpening Rods
Storm and lightning in Manila
Переглядів 3634 роки тому
Storm and lightning in Manila
Buy a McCullen Slipjoint Knife - Save a human
Переглядів 4254 роки тому
Buy a McCullen Slipjoint Knife - Save a human
Joe Calton - Knife Maker and DIYer
Переглядів 1514 роки тому
Joe Calton - Knife Maker and DIYer
You don't need to be the best sharpener on earth with a thin knife
Переглядів 3474 роки тому
You don't need to be the best sharpener on earth with a thin knife
Durable balsa wood knife strop
Переглядів 5214 роки тому
Durable balsa wood knife strop
Cardboard strop for edge polishing
Переглядів 2,1 тис.4 роки тому
Cardboard strop for edge polishing
Opinel 112 Paring Knife - Budget minded perfection
Переглядів 2,3 тис.4 роки тому
Opinel 112 Paring Knife - Budget minded perfection
Geometry cuts
Переглядів 2574 роки тому
Geometry cuts
Cardboard vs Opinel
Переглядів 3544 роки тому
Cardboard vs Opinel

КОМЕНТАРІ

  • @spy-v-spy1848
    @spy-v-spy1848 10 днів тому

    Cardboard makes a good strop

  • @sabelfechter7136
    @sabelfechter7136 Місяць тому

    You said you use artificial numbers for this. 1. What microbevel size do you use atm? I use ~0.1mm. As if i go below that if the edge is damaged the deformation can extend into the transition bevel. 2. And whats the widest you keep your transition bevels (when viewed from the side), i think larger than 2mm takes to long to thin. As a transition+microbevel for me is to have high performance without the extreme workload of thinning, so wanting too much performance out of it (lower transition angle) often results in too wide transition bevels that take way too long. 3. Also im unsure if i prefer a clear transition bevel of a given angle, or a convex transition, as that might cut a bit better, but again means a lot more surface to work on... If i use a shallow convex i still microbevel, as that visually ensures me the exact stability i need and not more. Great video btw, i used microbevels before seeing this a few years ago, but it strenghtend my belief in them, and is great for sending to friends on this topic, and is one of my all time favorites. What you show better than most channels, is that the microbevel should be the intended edge angle, not steeper, instead the angle behind it should be shallower. Which increases performance. When i sharpen friends knives, the first time it always takes a moment to add the transition bevel, but every year its a breeze to touch up the microbevel. Hope your still around!

  • @chanabhaji2726
    @chanabhaji2726 2 місяці тому

    Yeah my impinda was the same when opening up for cleaning. I put it down to salt sweat from my hand. Very surprising though seems they all do it.

  • @David-vz5mv
    @David-vz5mv 3 місяці тому

    10 to 12 cups....!? Slow down bro.

  • @pinarppanrapir9489
    @pinarppanrapir9489 9 місяців тому

    I'm partial to thick choppers like a kukri and I'd like to know if you have any recommendations for a good angle on them. Mostly cutting underbrush.

  • @Geoduck.
    @Geoduck. 10 місяців тому

    Thanks for this review I've ordered a NATO looking forward to having a strap that fits me. It's difficult to find a watch strap for men with large wrists.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 10 місяців тому

      I agree. its a serious struggle. I've moved to bracelets for my main watches, got a metal MRG G-shock, i was surprised i only needed to buy 2 links to get it to fit

  • @renechavez870
    @renechavez870 10 місяців тому

    The break in period is longer with the bigger ceramic decent ball. But once it breaks in oh my lord it is sebenza smooth! Just takes 2-3 months approximately

  • @l26wang
    @l26wang 10 місяців тому

    So this reprofile is making the microbevel taller? Did you do any other thinning work on this Opinel 112?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 10 місяців тому

      its not a microbevel. that is the bevel on an opinel as it comes. its taller because its a lower angle.. approx 1/2 the angle.. after. cant remember what i measured it at when i did it, maybe its in another video. but i think it was a very small obtuse angle of over 15dps but thin behind the edge. i dropped it to around 10dps

  • @l26wang
    @l26wang 11 місяців тому

    How does thinning with venev 80/100 compare to thinning with norton crystolon?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 10 місяців тому

      works a lot faster. with the crystolons maybe i just dont exert enough pressure so they feel glazed on harder steels. diamond will always cut faster do with an even pressure it definitely allows you to do a better job i think especially if its not dished out. lol

  • @l26wang
    @l26wang 11 місяців тому

    Worksharp field sharpener does it all. Diamonds ceramic strop in one.

  • @billyboy7
    @billyboy7 Рік тому

    Thanks for vid, impressive especially when you consider these paring knives generally are cheap ass steels. Speaking of cheap steels, why no burr removal? Based on the paper cutting, there were no burrs.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff Рік тому

      there is burr removal, but its just being done on the stone by lifting the angles to cut the burr, and then drop the angle again the clean it up. Thanks for watching :D

  • @Nebulax123
    @Nebulax123 Рік тому

    And ten years later it is still in use all spring and summer.

  • @umakako
    @umakako Рік тому

    I like this video❤

  • @jstwatchnread8420
    @jstwatchnread8420 Рік тому

    There is paradox, when you strop to razor grade, it make even more sharper, but also remove the sawtooth like edge, that reduce the cut speed ability...

  • @zachwaddill7801
    @zachwaddill7801 Рік тому

    Thanks

  • @Abbbb225
    @Abbbb225 Рік тому

    I think an interesting question is whether the thickness or direction of radius is more important for cutting performance: a thin hollow grind flaring out, or a thicker convex grind, flaring in. Perhaps in different materials there is a breakeven point. slicing only up to below the shoulder, and slicing past it, should constitute two data sets, as the question of resistance offered by increasing angle of deflection as compared to thickness is different than that of the overall cutting effect of a knife, in which one must move past the shoulder. I think convexing the shoulder on the hollow ground knife would offer a third set of data. your thesis seems to be that as soon as the hollow grind begins flaring outward you will have worse cutting performance than of a thicker convex grind that would be radiused in the opposite direction at that point. Of course, at some point this is not true. If we keep making the convex radius larger, we will eventually reach a point where, despite a decreasing rather than increasing angle of deflection, the cutting performance will be worse. The question is if that breakeven point is achieved within the parameters of constant blade thickness and width. We can also look at degree, shape, and orientation of radius for the grinds, IE a greater or lesser curvature, a constant or non-constant rate of curvature, and a symmetrical or non-symmetrical curvature, possibly flaring more towards the spine or the edge. in other words, we have to look for the equivalencies: at what point a hollow grind of type X is better or worse than a convex grind of type Y.

  • @knivesandstuff
    @knivesandstuff Рік тому

    Boring I know. I just want to record this for myself

  • @Abbbb225
    @Abbbb225 Рік тому

    Nice video. .3mm =300um

  • @TheIndianTimeCollector
    @TheIndianTimeCollector 2 роки тому

    Nice Video buddy!😃

  • @nelsonwang23
    @nelsonwang23 2 роки тому

    As a kiwi hunter I am amazed I have come full circle with my knife journey. I started with videos from Virtuovice and only after deep diving into his videos did i realise Wako got into the convex knife geometry through your original cKc knives which are from New Zealand! Your knives look amazing! Well done on representing Nz and influencing a generation of knife enthusiasts. Ka Pai Te Mahi

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      i also have gone full circle in many ways. started out with thin convex when i was young using Svord NZ. then when i started making knives it was great that Svord helped me when i didn't have any equipment and did my early designs in his steel, his heat-treat, preground.. so i could do the final steps and sell my ideas. then i went on a journey of trying and making so many different american style thick knives, and all sorts of oddities to see what they all could do. now that i no longer make knives. i am right back at thin sleek knives with thin edges very much in the style of svord, victorinox etc. you can never go wrong with a svord knife IMO, as long as its the deluxe. they are ground a bit better and thinner. these days im happy with a victorinox butcher boner as do all knife :D :D thanks for your comments. it was a fun journey.

  • @lindboknifeandtool
    @lindboknifeandtool 2 роки тому

    Cedric and ada Pete does a series he calls “unleashed” where he does low edge angles like 12dps. Once I started regrinding my knives to sub 10 thousandths I couldn’t go back. It’s how a knife should preform. Nothing to be scared of. I’m making some knives from some 0.090”, and 0.062” stock and I’m excited to see how they preform with full flats, and I’ll experiment with hollows. Always a joy to hear you talk about a subject.

    • @sabelfechter7136
      @sabelfechter7136 Місяць тому

      What i find confusing about this video is that he mentioned 7dps. Which is totally fine as a transition bevel with a normal angle tiny microbevel added (like i do myself). But it wont hold on itself. Also to increase edge retention, one cannot just keep lowering edge angle, due to limits of stability, actually Cliff once made a great forum entry "stability as a function of wear resistance" where he argues that a less stable steel might end being just as stable for the same wear resistant edge due to a different angle. I find that microbevels smaller than 0.1mm at a normal edge angle can have deflections extending the microbevel, into low angle transition bevel. Which ofc isnt good. So yes i go super low angle too, as it cuts way better, but i always add a ~0.1 microbevel for stability.

  • @macmiddlebrooks1
    @macmiddlebrooks1 2 роки тому

    The CKR thumbstuds are hot garbage. All mine get spydie-holes..problem solved.

  • @alinnimeni3789
    @alinnimeni3789 2 роки тому

    How long can you use that strop? And is it ok not to spread the compound even, on the strop? Ive stopped using a strop after talking to Cliffstamp, years ago.....he told me that strops tend to microconvex the edge; since then, i used ceramic and a MDF board to refine the edge......whats your opinion on this?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      the good thing about cardboard is that you just use it once or twice and throw it away. the compound is dirt cheap. i could do this and throw it away everyday for 10 years before i use up a $10 block. anything has the potential to micro convex. even on a flat stone, if you are freehanding, then there is a good chance you are not keeping an angle and micro convexing. i dont see it as a bad thing as long as its thinner not thicker. the problem that can occue from strops is not the convexing, but the rounding over by having too much pressure, or too high an angle. whatever you think the angle should be, drop it a few degrees. convexing is only a detriment if you convex it the wrong way. its just technique. it also depends on what level of edge you are trying to attain.

    • @alinnimeni3789
      @alinnimeni3789 2 роки тому

      @@knivesandstuff Thank you for your reply. Indeed, rounding is the best word to describe what i meant, but since english is not my first language, i hope you didnt mind my asking. Generally speaking, would you choose a cardboard strop over a classic ( leather) one? ( same conditions- blade, steel, compound) - judgeing by making cutting performance and not cost.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      @@alinnimeni3789 personally I find firm seude leather to be the best. Holds compound well and works more like a buffing wheel. As I use very low edge angles I just about lay the knife flat. I also don't over strop.

  • @BenoJ3000
    @BenoJ3000 2 роки тому

    Really great presentation.

  • @BenoJ3000
    @BenoJ3000 2 роки тому

    Nice to see and hear all of the stuff cliff would mention come out now from you as well. That mind set is lost if no one keeps bringing it up. Never spoke to either of you but I lurked on his forum. Love these videos

  • @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc
    @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc 2 роки тому

    As far as production knives with grinds. The Manly Peak and Manly Wasp is probably the thinnest production knife I have at 0.008”. The Microtech LUDT I have is around 0.009” behind the edge. I have a Joe Calton Parer that is about 0.004”-0.005” behind the edge. A Jeremy McCullen Streamside I have is around 0.009-0.010”.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      I'm quite happy with knives that come at the 0.010" mark. they are durable for most hard work, but not overly durable. they are thin enough that it is easy to thin them if desired. for a lot of people, 0.010 is probably a good number as you can still be a little rough on the knife. a number of spyderco models i have had in the past were 0.010 - 0.012 and would cut well until you tried harder materials

    • @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc
      @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc 2 роки тому

      @@knivesandstuff yes, the Spyderco models I have found in that range are the Chaparral and the Domino. Which ones did you find?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      @@LuisGonzalez-gl4wc its been so long since i had all the spydercos in my hand that i honestly can't remember. i just remember that a reasonable number of them were a lot thinner than other companies tend to come.

  • @SpartanJohns
    @SpartanJohns 2 роки тому

    I very much enjoyed your latest videos. I have been using softer steels(not sure what because they are cheap china made clones) for about 1 year now. simply as a curiosity. What I noticed was 1 thing you mentioned here: the edge does last very long(longer than I expected it to), they are much more pleasant to work with(small edge angles and thin grind) and sharpening them, to where they slice paper clean, is very easy.

  • @TheAnonymousSword
    @TheAnonymousSword 2 роки тому

    Thanks for another great video, I will try your advice next time. Still got a 14c28n outdoors knife that needs a regrind. Regarding Cliff stamp, I have never met him or talked to him personally but I miss him. He really did a great service to the knife community.

  • @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc
    @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc 2 роки тому

    Good to see you back making vids. I miss Cliff Stamp also. I still can’t believe he past a way last year. How did you find out about it?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      He was a good friend

    • @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc
      @LuisGonzalez-gl4wc 2 роки тому

      @@knivesandstuff Yes, he was. I’ve had many conversations with him throughout the years; I always valued his insight.

  • @JDStone20
    @JDStone20 2 роки тому

    Well, said! I am having flash backs of 2014!

  • @johnwoodcock6468
    @johnwoodcock6468 2 роки тому

    Yes very interesting. I know this...i've worked it out roughly over the last ten years about where the cutting is done. I have to like the knives with thickish spine ..nice handle..and nearly full height convex ground very similar to your 6"bladed knife you have in the video. You can cut through virtually anything.i could even pry open wooden boxes with this geometry and still cut anything. They are real hard use knives. They dont have so have a thick edge to be hard use knife.

  • @RichKielbasa
    @RichKielbasa 2 роки тому

    Great to see you're making new content again. Love it.. Some constructive criticism here... Can you please shoot your videos in landscape mode? You're wearing out the black pixels on my TV.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      hehe.. it was supposed to be, but the phone auto switched at some point in the tripod before i hit record. wasn't going to record again sorry :D

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      and i do hope you upgrade to oled so they dont wear out too bad :D :D :D

  • @4estfloor
    @4estfloor 2 роки тому

    This is what we've been waiting for.... ❤❤❤

  • @John..18
    @John..18 2 роки тому

    Was there any rolling on the edge of the red knife blade ?? (After trying to cut through the bone,)

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      lol. funny you ask. i was just doing a post video inspection and am about to add detail into the description. but the answer is yes. the edge is so thin, that trying to force it against its will so much into that bone rolled the edge. it took about 15 seconds to fix by raising the edge to a micro bevel

    • @johnwoodcock6468
      @johnwoodcock6468 2 роки тому

      @@knivesandstuff yes I was thinking this. I wonder if the spine a bit thicker and ground at the edge as thin as u can would it be better?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      @@johnwoodcock6468 its a mixed balance. 7dps gets thick fast as can be seen on the thick knife. whereas the paring knife is so thin that there isn't a lot of support. that 7dps is only for a tiny portion of the blade and then its just tapered off. realistically, you need the micro bevel around 12dps or more to handle harder work like those bones.. but it doesn't need to be much more than 0.001 thick if the blade is the right design (and your technique is careful)

    • @johnwoodcock6468
      @johnwoodcock6468 2 роки тому

      @@knivesandstuff microbevels are very powerful.👍

  • @mwvanwyk
    @mwvanwyk 2 роки тому

    Nice sharpening. Had to look up the stone. I generally feel that if I cant apex a new knife I ground with 20 strokes per side at 10-12 dps (given I use M390/Elmax) with a 320 grit it is ground too thick. Did it with my last batch and worked well. Then just refinement for “beauty “ aspects.

  • @astrazenica7783
    @astrazenica7783 2 роки тому

    with such high secondary edge grinds it becomes hard not to put a micro bevel on the edge

  • @John..18
    @John..18 2 роки тому

    RIP Cliff Stamp,,, ,, my hero,,,,,,

    • @astrazenica7783
      @astrazenica7783 2 роки тому

      Holy shit, he died? OMG I didn't know this. Damn

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      @@astrazenica7783 sadly, yes, last year

  • @oldhairpin
    @oldhairpin 2 роки тому

    I'm certain now, based on your findings Kyley, that if you were to use a thin stock of 14c28n or AEB-L, then give it the edge geometry you are demonstrating in these videos, you would benefit from not only the cutting performance you are showing but also the added toughness these 2 steels afford. It would then be interesting to see how those theoretical knives would work in a bushcraft environment. Assuming one was intelligent enough to not use them for splitting wood.......

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      A lot of my newer aebl blades were ground like this for those asking for it. In general they were more like 0.005 - 0.010 though but they'd all do these tasks

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      on chopping wood. a lot of it comes down to overall geometry.. the apex angle is most important for starting the cut, then the geometry helps follow through. if you look at all my big chopping knives and axes that cliff stamp had and tested, they are all still 13dps or less on the apex. they just thicken faster to add support.

  • @couldntthingofone269
    @couldntthingofone269 2 роки тому

    I wish you and a lot of the older knife channels had stuck around a bit longer (no judgment though) to really hit some decent growth because this isn't the type of information you easily find unless you aren't that far off from already knowing it.

  • @Bill22252
    @Bill22252 2 роки тому

    I think 95% of the “I chipped my blade on a zip tie” comes from hitting a metal object when you have to gorilla pull the knife through it.

  • @Nebulax123
    @Nebulax123 2 роки тому

    Tuna pie? Oh the humanity!

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      literally the closest thing to a real pie i can find.. haha

  • @Nebulax123
    @Nebulax123 2 роки тому

    Kyley cuts as the pride moves in for the kill. LOL

  • @blatherama
    @blatherama 2 роки тому

    I seem to remember, many years ago, someone claiming they were worried about using their knives with zip ties. I also remember a series of videos, from you and Gavkoo mocking that claim. Do you remember who that was?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      I remember the mocking but not the target. Haha. Might have been a brand talking about unsupport edge phenomenon

  • @blatherama
    @blatherama 2 роки тому

    I have one of paring knives with a CKC-made kydex sheath. How did that happen?

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      I'm sure I sent it with something else. You bought. But it was a stock paring knife

    • @blatherama
      @blatherama 2 роки тому

      @@knivesandstuff Actually, I think it was with a 3" utility knife, or the bait utility.

  • @Nebulax123
    @Nebulax123 2 роки тому

    Looks just like my one!

  • @Nebulax123
    @Nebulax123 2 роки тому

    Glad to see you using the 222 Purple Loctite, you will never have to worry about a stripped screw with that. I just can't get people to try it even though it is specifically made for small machine screws. It is easy to back out with a tool but once dry it will never turn on its own.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      Yeah it's literally what it's built. For. I used purple on all my folders I. Made. Glad. Crk. Ships the right stuff. People. Using red are in a world. Of. Pain. Haha

  • @Nebulax123
    @Nebulax123 2 роки тому

    Randy just gave me an entire assorted box of diamond stones he discontinued from his shop I will put some in your package for you too play with.

  • @johnwoodcock6468
    @johnwoodcock6468 2 роки тому

    I cut these things all the time and even though my knives are much thicker at the spine...(one of them is 6ml thick), its edge geometry is very thin...it will blast through them so easy...and much much safer.

    • @johnwoodcock6468
      @johnwoodcock6468 2 роки тому

      I mean it's my knife I have in my collection...but it is a ckc bowie 6".

  • @8thsinner
    @8thsinner 2 роки тому

    About to jump from a 1500 grit, just finished with a 10000 chosera as nagura on it, all the way up to the suehiro 10000, they say thats too much of a jump and I would normally agree, I would pull out the papers here normally. but you have reminded me that rules shouldn't always be followed just because they were in the past.

    • @knivesandstuff
      @knivesandstuff 2 роки тому

      That's a lot of Sharpening. Hehe. I'm very simple tastes when it comes to edge abrasives. Let me know how it turns out

    • @8thsinner
      @8thsinner 2 роки тому

      ​@@knivesandstuff Well I took to a new philosophy on them myself recently. SO I initially ran it through a 400,1000,3000 grit chinese diamond, (cheap cheap) then a adaee, another chinese but higher quality 1500 stone to bring to where I was today. It left noticable scratches and the 10k chosera as a nagura would have worked well to mirror it but I didn't spend too long on it. The 10k or 1 micron suehiro has really awesome feed back and still cuts pretty fast, quite aggressive. I didn't bring it all the way to mirror cause I just wanted to get an idea of them all. It does remove sratches though, I got rid of most of them in about five minutes then decided to move on. The .75 micron is where the real polishing starts on this stone line up. Does cut but you really must start this on a mirror, feedback on this one, others have described it as a little strange and it is, it's not classically good feedback but it does give good feedback in a different way is all. Now the final half micron suehiro. OMG just buttery, very very hard stone almost zero aggression in it but dam does she polish. Normally I would have finished on a 7000wet n dry over a stone then move to .5-.3 chromium oxide strop, then the .1 feric strop and it leaves a damn similar edge to this, but this is so much more crisp and stronger because the burr has been completely and properly shaped, no half in half out efforts. I still finished on the .1 strop mainly to dry the edge and see if it made a difference, very very little. These three stones are definitely not cheap but really fun to work through. I will play with this edge for probably a week or so then I am going to the the bte and convex it on the same stones and see how much better that is. I have decided 100% I despise flat edges for feather sticks and normal use. It's nice but nope, going back to convex. I would say that all in all, using the cheapest diamond stones on the market, a decent sort of finishing stone, not necessarily a cheap 1000-2000, and then superior stones to finish is the way to go. I think I want to try a chosera 3000 because it's both hard and a cutter. At least on spyderco zdp this seems to be a very clean and reasonably quick progression.